Is there a doctor in the house?
Saturday, December 03, 2011 @ 12:40 PM
Walked out to go to work the other night, turned the key in the Jeep, nothing happened. The lights came on, radio came on, everything seemed in order except for the fact that it didn't even try to turn over. I got lucky in the fact that the wife had the night off. I resignedly walked in the house, tossed my keys across the table, grabbed hers, and drove the Toaster to work.
I'd wait until after work to deal with the issue...
Upon getting home, I grabbed my keys and headed to the garage. I hopped in the Jeep, turned the key, checked that no idiot lights came on, and tried to start it once again. Once again, nothing happened. In frustration, I cranked the key back and forth seemingly dozens of times. One of those times, it tried to turn over.
I paused before tentatively turning the key all the way forward. To my surprise, it fired right up. I let it run a few minutes and then shut it off. I waited a couple minutes and tried again. It fired right up. Over the course of an hour, I started it up four times. Each time, it started without hesitation. I decided the non-start must have been a fluke and headed to bed, confident it would start up the next night.
The wife left for work. I woke an hour later. All dressed up and somewhere to be, I hopped in the Jeep and turned the key. Of course, nothing happened. I sat and silently cursed the Jeep. I tried again with the same result. I got out of the Jeep and stood staring dumbly at it as if I could will it to start. For good measure, I kicked a tire.
I hopped in and tried again. Still nothing. I called the office and informed them I would not be babysitting this night as I had no way to make it to work. I went in and changed clothes. I called Eeyore and begged him to drive me to an Autozone open twenty-four hours.
While I waited for him to arrive, I removed the starter. The battery, being less than a year old, could not be the issue I reasoned to myself. Once Eeyore showed up, we made the long (from my house, anyway) drive to the west side. I waited in line. Upon reaching the counter, the guy shrugged and made apologies. His testing equipment was busted. His only saving grace was that he told us of a second Autozone open twenty-four hours.
We drove all the way to the northeast side. We walked in, smiled seeing no line, and confidently strode to the counter. Before I even laid the starter down, the guy told me his testing equipment was busted. I refrained from killing him. Deciding to just buy a new starter - after all, I had replaced a starter on MN Bob's truck a few years back and his starter was less than $60 - I asked if they had any in stock. "Special order," he replied after tap dancing his fingers across the keyboard.
I steamed all the way back to the house.
Finally, the wife came home. We hit up Babystacks (nee Babycakes) for some Red Velvet Pancakes (heavenly) before dealing with the Jeep Heep.
We stopped at an Autozone. I held little hope their equipment might be in working order, but I ended up successfully getting the starter tested. Nothing wrong with it. I sulked all the way back to the house.
I hit up an Autozone closer to the house for an ignition switch. What else could it be? After replacing the ignition switch, I came to the obvious conclusion that it had to be something else. I drove back to the Autozone and grabbed a starter relay. Surely, this would be the last trip...
Replacing the starter relay solved nothing.
So...recap...
Battery: good
Starter and solenoid: good
Ignition switch: replaced
Starter relay: replaced
Turn key: doesn't even try to turn over
I'm stumped. Is there a doctor in the house?
Hate to say this, but I owned a Jeep.
Smack the top of the electronic brain with an open palm.
Gently, but firmly.
Fuel pump
Neutral safety switch.
I smacked the brain and the PDC. No help ;)
Bypassed the neutral safety switch with a paperclip. Still no start.
Fuel pump....don't even want to think about that. If it was the fuel pump, though, wouldn't it be throwing a code and lighting up the check engine light?
I think it has something to do with the anti-theft system that's installed on. It interrupts the starter when it doesn't get a signal from the key fob thingy (yes, I replaced the battery in the key fob thingy just to be safe).
My pickup has a safety theft that if you do not get in the vehicle the same way you got out, and I mean by way of unlocking and locking the vehicle, then my fuel pump is shut down and it won't start. No starter activity as well. Sounds like the same thing. It is frustrating and I have had it happen to me. Even in the dealers maintenance garage.
Amazingly, the manufacturer of the anti-theft system responded to my email with a phone call...on a Saturday night!!!
We removed his system from the Heep. Still no start.
Getting the sinking feeling it's a fuel pump ;(
Hey S - I had the exact same problem with a Dodge P/U, since the jeep is essentially a dodge as well. It was the security system. Never was able to sort it out, however, a solution is to get a remote starter switch to bypass the keyed switch. I permanently mounted mine low on the dash. The vehicle is still secure as it will not start unless the key is used, The switch just feeds directly to the solenoid bypassing all the myriad circuits between the key and the starter. You should be able to get the switch at any good parts supplier. The only other thing you need is enough 8 or 10 gauge wire to go from a 12v source to the switch and back to the solenoid. Hope this helps.
Another "S"
Looks like I get to spend a second day in/under the Jeep. Electrical problems are about as much fun as a chasing a bug in someone else's code.
Think I'll stop for some Excedrin Migraine on the way home from work...
I know you say your battery is only 1 year old but, this is Las Vegas where batteries live the shortest lives of anywhere I know. Since you are testing and eliminating all these parts to zero in on problem, get your battery tested and be done with it. Does you car start when you jump it with battery cables? Are your battery terminals clean and all connections tight? Just trying to help before you start spending money you may not need to.
Battery fully charged & 100% good on crank amps, according to tester. Terminals & connectors scrubbed with wire brush. No start...
Re: fuel pump and throwing a code. Not necessarily.
And since electrical all checks out (except see below), that leaves only a couple of major options: brain (bad news of course if it's that) and fuel pump.
Always go back to an engine needs 3 things: air, fuel, and spark.
Have you checked for spark by removing all but one plug wire and then removing one plug (laying it so the plug body is grounded)?
From your description, fuel pump seems very unlikely. It would at least try to crank every time you turned the key if that were the problem. Sounds distinctly electrical, and specifically switch-like. There is presumably an interlock that keeps it from starting unless the clutch is depressed. Maybe that's where the glitch resides.
I didn't think about the spark plug test. I'll do that in the morning after work.
Thanks!
The Heep has a fuse slot used to bypass the Clutch Pedal Position Sensor. It's intended to be used when off-roading but most people with Heeps that I know leave it bypassed permanently. It's nice to be able to just reach in and start it up without having to press the clutch. Just have to remember to leave it in neutral when parked ;)
Is your key one of those smart keys? Do you have another key that you can try? Perhaps the key (security) is bad.
I've had problems with the CPS since I got the Heep. In six years, I've replaced the CPS at least twice that I can remember. I know I've replaced it since being back in Vegas.
It's definitely cheaper than the fuel pump!
Thankfully, no security key.
I didn't get much done in the way of checking things the last couple days. With the next two days off, I should get something done :)
What year is the Jeep? on the 90's versions there is a sensor for the flywheel that goes bad. It is on the side of the bell housing. I had this problem with my Jeep.
It's an '03.
90% certain it's the CPS. I pulled it and it looks bad (as in missing some of it's metal covering). Ordered a new one - why's everything have to be a special-order part on this thing - and waiting for it to show up.